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aval
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
USA
3273 Posts
Status: offline |
 Posted - 03/07/2012 : 8:42:34 PM
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Anyone try this?
VMware workstation 7.x for example.
I'd like to be able to set up a 2-3 guests with faster response time.
2-3 DCs or 1 DC (1GB) and two Exchange servers (3 GB each).
8 GB of RAM obviously.
I have a server with two 10K SAS drives (146 GB) but even those seem slow at times (no RAID config, no RAID 0 in particular).
Do you think that I'd get better performance from a laptop with a SSHD than with SAS on a server, 10k RPM once again?
That might seem silly but I've heard pretty impressive things about IOPS for SSHDs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=og73pkYVKRk
Granted, they are not testing a laptop there.
Best thing would be server with SSHD but I'm not there yet.
Wonder what a bunch of SSHD in RAID 0 would give for performance?
Of course, I am not at all concerned about redundancy here (testing only - loss of test VMs would be annoying but cause no liability, not real data loss).
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Edited by - aval on 03/07/2012 8:47:08 PM |
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wkasdo
Administrator
Netherlands
7403 Posts
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Posted - 03/08/2012 : 02:44:47 AM
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I have a laptop, 16 GB with a 320 GB SSD, running Hyper-V. I keep 6 VM's in the air (DC's, meaning low IOPS) with no problem at all.
> impressive things about IOPS for SSHDs.
The killer feature of SSD is that there is no difference between sequential and random access, which makes a huge difference if you do things in parallel. Like running multiple VM's! |
Make it as simple as you can, but not simpler -- Albert Einstein |
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aval
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
USA
3273 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 03/08/2012 : 07:01:40 AM
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What model laptop?
I'm looking at some Lenovo T420 laptops and 8 GB seems to be the max for most of them (when using the custom configurator). |
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aval
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
USA
3273 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 03/08/2012 : 07:03:19 AM
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OH, and what type of SSHD?
I think there's different levels of quality. SLC, MLC and other factors too perhaps. |
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JamesNT
Moderator
USA
3150 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 03/08/2012 : 08:05:14 AM
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quote:
I have a server with two 10K SAS drives (146 GB) but even those seem slow at times (no RAID config, no RAID 0 in particular).
He just had to do that. . . :)
JamesNT |
James Summerlin
www.jamessummerlin.com |
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Playwell
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
Netherlands
4819 Posts
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Posted - 03/08/2012 : 11:43:35 AM
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Could be worse James..
Raid0 with SSD's |
'People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. '
Quote by Isaac Asimov
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aval
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
USA
3273 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 03/08/2012 : 12:21:52 PM
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Why?
Is SSHD more likely to fail?
I've heard that after so many years, there is some risk of data loss (after so many write opeations) but this is a test environment and not having to wait 1 minute for something to happen (x the number of times I perform that operation) is more important than protection of "make believe" data. If I have to replace the drive(s) 5 years from now, so be it (as long as initial price is not TOO expensive).
I know there some story or incident about James and RAID 0 (which I would never use for real) but I don't recall the details.
EDIT- had to step out.
Anyway, I would tend to think that SSD (guess we don't need the H) would be less likely to fail because of the absence of moving parts. |
Edited by - aval on 03/08/2012 12:52:20 PM |
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chamezzzz
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
United Kingdom
2297 Posts
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chamezzzz
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
United Kingdom
2297 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 03/08/2012 : 6:51:29 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by aval
What model laptop?
I'm looking at some Lenovo T420 laptops and 8 GB seems to be the max for most of them (when using the custom configurator).
You can get up to 16GB RAM in the W520 Thinkpad range and likely 32B of Ram when the chips are made.
You just place the SSD in the SATA hard drive bay and install Windows.
Make sure you check the BIOS for CPU to enable Virtualisation.
Still puzzled why this is disabled by default these days? |
James |
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wkasdo
Administrator
Netherlands
7403 Posts
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Posted - 03/09/2012 : 02:43:27 AM
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I have the Lenevo W510, 16 GB. Used to run Windows 2008 R2 on it. After tuning it was 100% usable. The only issue I had with it was that there's no sleep or hybernation when Hyper-V is on.
Now I run the Win8 Beta, which has Hyper-V as well.
> Make sure you check the BIOS for CPU to enable Virtualisation.
> Still puzzled why this is disabled by default these days?
For hyper-v on Win8, you not only need to enable Virtualisation, but SLAT as well. Fortunately the W510 (2 years old, almost) has this option :-) |
Make it as simple as you can, but not simpler -- Albert Einstein |
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Jazzy
Administrator
Netherlands
1929 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 03/09/2012 : 05:59:26 AM
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| I'm running the HP EliteBook 8560w with 16 GB ram. The OS is running from an 120GB OCZ Vertex3 SSD and my VMs are on a 500 GB SATA disk. I don't like to run beta software on my business notebook so I use Windows 7 x64 with VMware Workstation 8. Performance is great, although my VM's are on a non SSD disk I think having to OS on a different disk helps too. I can run one, two or three VM's with very good performance, with four or more it get's mutch slower. |
Jetze Mellema
Exchange specialist
Former MVP (2005-2012)
My blog: http://jetzemellema.blogspot.com (Dutch)
My company: http://www.imara-ict.nl/ |
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Jazzy
Administrator
Netherlands
1929 Posts
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Posted - 03/09/2012 : 06:54:19 AM
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| Talking about SSD, I had several issues with BSODs and locking systems caused by SSD disks. Two OCS Vertex 2 disks locked up and needed RMA, my current Vertex 3 disks needed a firmware update to make it compatible with my notebook's chipset. Never seen that before with the traditional disks. |
Jetze Mellema
Exchange specialist
Former MVP (2005-2012)
My blog: http://jetzemellema.blogspot.com (Dutch)
My company: http://www.imara-ict.nl/ |
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chamezzzz
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
United Kingdom
2297 Posts
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Posted - 03/09/2012 : 09:44:06 AM
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Nice Jetze. I take it the EliteBook 8560w has room for two drives - how do you do this - via a USB3 drive?
Its also worth adding for anyone new to SSD that the DISM switch on SSD Drives to clean up the Service Pack 1 and free up disk space.
http://blogs.technet.com/b/joscon/archive/2011/02/15/how-to-reclaim-space-after-applying-service-pack-1.aspx
The Samsung drives I linked to above have been really good so far. I am impressed but I am biased. I love their products from my Galaxy Nexus to my Samsung TV. |
James |
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Jazzy
Administrator
Netherlands
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chamezzzz
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
United Kingdom
2297 Posts
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Posted - 03/09/2012 : 11:58:47 AM
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quote:
Has been a while I tested, but I think the gain is very small.
Depends on the OS build and installed software - if with SP1 already integrated then yes, but if accumulated over time I have seen 6GB saved in my 2008 VMs
quote:
I do recommend some tuning, for example disable the indexing service and disable defragmentation in the task scheduler. This will improve performance and the lifetime of your SSD. I use SSD Tweaker for this but you could perform the tweaks manually too of course. http://elpamsoft.com/Downloads.aspx?Name=SSD%20Tweaker
Great tips - many thanks for the share |
James |
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Travan
Old Timer
443 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 03/09/2012 : 12:07:24 PM
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you can use a newer macbook pro and put in a ssd in and then get a proprietary memory chip from OWC to get it up to 16GB. Or use a mac mini server!
see the below for some interesting reading on SSDs
http://www.storagesearch.com/ssd-jargon.html |
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chamezzzz
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
United Kingdom
2297 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 03/09/2012 : 2:59:51 PM
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Yes, nice Travan.
They look really nice the new Mac Book Pros.
Cost is only $350 more too, without any Apple extras.
Mac Book Pro 15" $1800
Crucial Memory Kit 16GB $240
Samsung 830 Series SSD 512GB $719
Total $2759
Lenovo W520 $1450
Crucial Memory Kit 16GB $240
Samsung 830 Series SSD 512GB $719
Total $2409 |
James |
Edited by - chamezzzz on 03/09/2012 3:06:01 PM |
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Jazzy
Administrator
Netherlands
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Playwell
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
Netherlands
4819 Posts
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Posted - 03/09/2012 : 3:50:50 PM
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With $350 you get a value of $500 more hardware quality ;-]
Joking a bit but Macs are very sturdy, and typing experience is better then a Dell. |
'People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. '
Quote by Isaac Asimov
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jadgate
Major Contributor
USA
917 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 03/09/2012 : 3:53:01 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by aval
Why?
Is SSHD more likely to fail?
I've heard that after so many years, there is some risk of data loss (after so many write opeations)
to think that SSD (guess we don't need the H) would be less likely to fail because of the absence of moving parts.
Dave-
I've raised this question with my collegue here at work who is our in house forensic expert. He specializes in getting data off of drives when investigations have to occur.
As long as its a test environment, I'd agree with you (in other words, loss of data isn't the end of the world). The thing about SSD's is that when they do go bad, AFAIK, there is NO WAY to get the data back. With conventional platters and servo arms HD tech (in other words, parts that tend to fail but that can be replaced, in part), it is at least possible to send a drive to a clean room and have them try and get some, if not all of the data back (not an inexpensive option, though). No such option with SSDs. In words of our friends from across the pond, when they go you are truely buggered. Obviously, with SSD's (as with any HD tech) you cannot get away from the need for backups and redundancy.
Later,
Jim |
James Adgate, CISSP
IT Auditor and Compliance Specialist
Data Loss Prevention (DLP)
IT Security Policy and Risk Mitigation for Enterprises
http://linkedin.com/in/jamesadgatech
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joe_elway
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
Ireland
7396 Posts
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Posted - 03/10/2012 : 08:59:45 AM
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James is right; I've been running W2008 R2 Hyper-V off an eSata drive for a few years with Win7 on the internal drive. However, since the DevPrev of Windows 8, I've been running that on my "beast" (HP 8740w, i7, 256 GB SSD and 512 GB hybrid drive). It's seen me through many demos on many roadshows since September. I've even run Hyper-V on my Build slate PC.
It's nice to have a desktop OS with a hypervisor built-in and with hibernation support, at no extra cost, with Live Migration (incl live storage migration). Running the VMs on SSD is great for demos, especially deployment stuff such as some of the Intune s/w deployment demos I was doing a few weeks ago, and the ConfigMgr 2012 stuff I'll be doing in 2 weeks. |
Aidan Finn
MCSE, MVP (Virtual Machine)
IT Blog: http://www.aidanfinn.com
My Photography: http://www.aidanfinnphoto.com/
Books: WS2012 Hyper-V Installation & Config Guide, MSFT Private Cloud Computing
Twitter: http://twitter.com/joe_elway |
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aval
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
USA
3273 Posts
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Pesos
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
USA
3505 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 03/18/2012 : 11:42:06 PM
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| 32G nice! I am just getting ready to bump my 17" MacBook pro to 16. Been running win8 on it with 8gb and a 256gb crucial c300 ssd. Speedy stuff. |
-Wes |
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Pesos
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
USA
3505 Posts
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Posted - 03/19/2012 : 12:37:39 AM
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| Which reminds me of a question I meant to ask you Aidan... I currently boot my win8 via native vhd booting - do you know if trim functions in this configuration? |
-Wes |
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Pesos
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
USA
3505 Posts
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Posted - 03/19/2012 : 01:01:41 AM
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| Hmm I ran the Intel SSD toolbox and confirmed that for drive D (the physical drive) it is properly set to receive trim... but of course drive C it just sees as a virtual MSFT drive and no special commands appear to be supported - so I assume the drive is not trimming and getting somewhat thrashed... |
-Wes |
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aval
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
USA
3273 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 03/27/2012 : 3:58:36 PM
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What about the virtualisation software?
Looks like we have at least two options (there's tons of stuff out there):
- Windows 7 with VMware workstation
- Hyper-V
The second option will probably offer better performance.
On the other hand, I like to be able to use the Windows 7 software to take screenshots and type notes while working on my VMs.
I don't think Hyper-V would have the Snipping Tool and the ability to copy and paste commands typed in the VMs to a text editor.
Or would it? I honestly have never used it. Got started with VMware workstation (versions 5, 6, and now 7) and use ESXi on my server.
VMware Tools allows some copy/paste functionality between the VMs running on ESXi, both text and entire files. |
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aval
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
USA
3273 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 03/27/2012 : 4:00:18 PM
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| And last I heard, ESXi is too picky about hardware to be installed on a laptop. Unless that's changed with version 5. |
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cj_berlin
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
Germany
3964 Posts
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Posted - 03/27/2012 : 4:01:28 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by aval
What about the virtualisation software?
Looks like we have at least two options (there's tons of stuff out there):
- Windows 7 with VMware workstation
- Hyper-V
Provided your laptop is on the HCL, do have a look at xenClient before you decide. |
Evgenij Smirnov
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aval
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
USA
3273 Posts
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Posted - 03/27/2012 : 4:20:34 PM
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That would be the equivalent of... VMware Workstation? Or more comparable to a true hypervisor?
I just looked at the Lenovo laptops and they have the T420 but not any of the W series (the ones with 16 to 32 GB of RAM).
Otherwise, I'll keep on reading.
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aval
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
USA
3273 Posts
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Posted - 03/27/2012 : 4:23:41 PM
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Looks like it installs right on the metal?
quote:
As the first enterprise class, true bare metal client-side hypervisor, XenClient delivers near-native performance, wide platform support, ease-of-use, and enterprise management capabilities.
But... in this video, it's only showing client OSes as virtual guests:
http://www.citrix.com/tv/#videos/4929
(At 49 seconds).
I would want to be able to install server OSes. |
Edited by - aval on 03/27/2012 4:28:15 PM |
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Pesos
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
USA
3505 Posts
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Posted - 03/27/2012 : 4:28:48 PM
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| Windows 8 is the way to go. Hyperv 3.0 built right into the client os, no need to run Server. Running great on my crapbook pro. |
-Wes |
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VMware workstation on laptop with SSHD
