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joe_elway
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
Ireland
6673 Posts
Status: offline |
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Jazzy
Major Contributor
Netherlands
873 Posts
Status: offline |
 Posted - 07/16/2008 : 05:00:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by joe_elway
The next time a Linux or Mac bigot (i.e. their favourite OS is the only correct way) gives me the "less updates" or "no reboot required" speech I'll point them there.
Yes, do that. I'm sure they will be convinced then and will change their opinions.
Maybe... |
Jetze Mellema
MVP Exchange, MCITP: Exchange Server 2010, MCTS: Forefront
My blog: http://jetzemellema.blogspot.com (Dutch) |
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joe_elway
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
Ireland
6673 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 07/16/2008 : 05:20:29 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jazzy
Yes, do that. I'm sure they will be convinced then and will change their opinions.
I doubt it. But it'll make them shout even louder (I noticed that they shout a lot) and make me laugh even more. I'm so easily entertained! |
Aidan Finn
MCSE, MVP (Virtual Machine: Systems Administration)
IT Blog: http://www.aidanfinn.com
My Photography: http://www.aidanfinnphoto.com/
My Hyper-V Book: Mastering Hyper-V Deployment
Twitter: http://twitter.com/joe_elway |
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mitachu
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
United Kingdom
1768 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 07/16/2008 : 05:50:40 AM
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| That's a good article. |
Tim |
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Xenophane
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
Denmark
2775 Posts
Status: online |
Posted - 07/16/2008 : 07:24:37 AM
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| Good read.. allready sent the link to a few people :) |
SIG> George Bernard Shaw : The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it. </SIG>
You can read my blog at www.xipher.dk |
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sixdoubleo
Old Timer
USA
738 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 07/16/2008 : 12:59:17 PM
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As the author briefly eluded to in the article, Vista is merely looking at OS and Office updates. Linux is looking at every single software and component installed. The fact that the software and components come on the distribution DVD is irrelevant. A brand new Dell installs many applications out of the gate...many of which are possibly out of date by the time you get the box plugged in at home, but Windows Update doesn't tell you that. If you could somehow tell Windows Update to report on every update available for your virus scanner, Adobe Reader, Java, Google Toolbar, Kodak Photo Manager, and every other freeware application you've installed, then you'd have a more appropriate comparison of updates.
All Linux software is community developed, and thus is under a state of continuous redevelopment and change. This is just simply the nature of the beast and it's what you signed up for when you installed a free Linux distribution. Commercial software companies only release updates when absolutely necessary, whereas it isn't uncommon for an open source/freeware author to release a daily build. I'm not saying that one model is better than the other...just that one gets daily/weekly updates, the other gets less frequent updates.
Another thing to keep in mind is that the very nature of most of the free Linux distributions is that they are development sandboxes for a more stable and tested commercial product. For instance, today's Fedora Core 9 is the development build that will become Red Hat Linux in about a year. In some respects, Fedora Core could be thought of as a "Release Candidate". A new version of Fedora Core is released every 6 months or so, which makes it a less-than-ideal platform for critical production applications. Comparing its patch count to the much more stable Vista or 2008 really isn't appropriate.
I know this article is primarily in response to the ignorant Linux kiddies (most of whom don't actually even USE Linux) but either way, I don't feel those folks even warrant a response.
Anyway, yes Linux sucks..blah blah blah...I don't really care which is better (I like both). I just have a problem with the article's premise (cuz it's wrong). |
Edited by - sixdoubleo on 07/16/2008 1:00:56 PM |
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Doug G
Honorable But Hopeless Addict
USA
2096 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 07/16/2008 : 8:13:18 PM
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sixdoubleo beat me to it. I use Fedora with lots of installed software and updates are often sizeable.
And I don't remember running across any linux advocates that ever said anything about 'not needing updates'.
quote:
If you could somehow tell Windows Update to report on every update available for your virus scanner, Adobe Reader, Java, Google Toolbar, Kodak Photo Manager, and every other freeware application you've installed, then you'd have a more appropriate comparison of updates.
Yes indeed! Keeping all your software up-to-date in windows is pretty much a nightmare with gazillions of update agents calling home on who knows what schedule.
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Doug G
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JamesNT
Moderator
USA
2485 Posts
Status: offline |
Posted - 07/19/2008 : 2:01:39 PM
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A few small comments if I may:
quote:
As the author briefly eluded to in the article, Vista is merely looking at OS and Office updates.
And don't forget SQL Server, Exchange, Visio, and pretty much all other MS software - and many versions thereof. Also, are we agreeing that IE, Media Player, and others are now part of the OS?
quote:
The fact that the software and components come on the distribution DVD is irrelevant.
I disagree. As a user or administrator, if I don't take the time to "uncheck" the option to install that component then that means I now have to maintain it regardless of whether or not I use it. This is the same arguement thrown at Windows in regards to it's lack of setup options. Why install Media Player if you don't need it? And, of course, the all time bashing favorite - Internet Explorer.
quote:
A brand new Dell installs many applications out of the gate...many of which are possibly out of date by the time you get the box plugged in at home, but Windows Update doesn't tell you that. If you could somehow tell Windows Update to report on every update available for your virus scanner, Adobe Reader, Java, Google Toolbar, Kodak Photo Manager, and every other freeware application you've installed, then you'd have a more appropriate comparison of updates.
I'm certain there is a way for the ActiveX control on Windows Update to determine what software is on your machine. The problems are:
1. Only the third party developer can make an update to their software as they are the ones with the source code.
2. The third part must be interested in updating the software in question.
This is where things get dicey. How many other software companies do you know of that support their software as long as MS does? Windows XP still has years of support left to it. Office XP is still supported. Most other companies I know of end support for the old version one year after the new version comes out - if even that long.
3. The third party must give MS the updates to be placed on the Windows Update website. Some driver manufacturers do this but most clearly do not.
quote:
Another thing to keep in mind is that the very nature of most of the free Linux distributions is that they are development sandboxes for a more stable and tested commercial product. For instance, today's Fedora Core 9 is the development build that will become Red Hat Linux in about a year. In some respects, Fedora Core could be thought of as a "Release Candidate". A new version of Fedora Core is released every 6 months or so, which makes it a less-than-ideal platform for critical production applications. Comparing its patch count to the much more stable Vista or 2008 really isn't appropriate.
There was a time you would have never gotten away with saying that. Someone would have slashdotted this forum by now. Fedora Core is a Release Candidate? Vista and 2008 are stable?
I agree with both statements, don't get me wrong. I'm just so used to being the only one willing to risk my life by saying them aloud - that's all. :)
quote:
Anyway, yes Linux sucks..blah blah blah...I don't really care which is better (I like both). I just have a problem with the article's premise (cuz it's wrong).
For the most part, I agree. For the most part, this issue could be solved in linux by not including so much stuff to choose from at install.
I hope everyone is having a good weekend. I recommend Batman.
P.S.
Doug - I really wish HP would submit their printer driver updates to MS for distribution via Windows Update. I have so many clients who complain about the update agent they install now. |
I should learn how to speed read. It seems like every time I turn around I have to read another 400 pages of documentation. |
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Vista Updates VS Linux VS Mac
